Are Lexus cars de-tuned here?

[designo]

Is this true, I don't think so!!!!

I would be very pissed if they sold me a 460 as a replacement for the 430 and find out it's detuned!!

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-third-generation/456181-limiter-on-my-car-0-a.html

[ED]

BRN996TT where are you?

this really blows if its true, I would raise hell if I find out this was done to my car.

Edit*


Interesting. I just looked this up on Wikipedia. The normal GS460 engine is the 1UR-FE while the LS460 has the 1UR-FSE. The difference is the LS has direct injection which gives it 380hp vs 342hp.

In the middle east the LS comes with the GS engine so it only has 342hp. I suspect Lexus is deliberately detuning the GS engine to create a difference (i.e. its Lexus not the dealer). Given this you could either write to Lexus and complain, or just get the US ECU which will tune it back to 342hp.

this actually makes sense, we don't get any Direct injection Lexus vehicles in Bahrain or GCC, same retarded fuel quality excuse that prevents them from importing the IS350, but in the same time the Toyota Direct injection Avalon is imported.

this kinda sucks.

[KLEEMANN]

tekbar we tensa, ahmed.

what you posted is one of the reasons i think alot before getting a toyota or lexus.

[Psycho]

I've been wondering why the HP numbers aren't matching up with Lexus for a while now. I just figured they were using older engines or something for the middle east. Whatever the case is, Bottom line is that it just sucks.

[Quarantine]

i don't think the Lexus cars are detuned here. a dyno would really help assess.
But I think it sucks that Lexus don't bring their sportier cars here. Like the is350 or IS-F

[ADM]

Both engines have different fuel delivery, so its nothing to do with the ECU.

This isn't Bahrain forums where the guys will believe that if you change the ECU, the engine will start injecting fuel directly into the cylinder rather than into the intake port lol

[BRN996TT]

Usa And Middle East Have Different Hp
The Reason Is The Fuel Grade In Middle East Which Is Close To 89 Octane And The Problem With Our Fuel Is Sulfar In It , I'm Not Sure What But There Is A Problem , With It
All Gcc Where Asking For The Is 350 And Isf And Ls460 With The 380hp But All These Car Comes With Direct Fuel Injectors
Which Is Not Good For Our Fuel
Yes You Can Drive The Car , But You Will Not Get The Optimum Performance Of It And In Some Cases It Will Be Slower , You Also Will Have To Clean The Injectors Every 5,000 Km Which Is Not Good For Lexus , For Example There Are Some Cars In Bahrain With Direct Fuel Injectors Like The Cayenne Gts And Cayenne Turbo , I Used To Own Both , With Mumtaz The Car Was Not Runing Right With 99 Octane From Vp The Car Transformed To A Different Car Another Example My Top Speed In Cayenne Turbo With Mumtaz Is 245 Km/h Using Mumtaz With Vp 99 Octane Its 283 Km/h The Ecu In Those Cars Used To Control Boost With Mumtaz It Was About 7 Psi With 99 Its 14 Psi Also In My Isf I Have To Mix Mumtaz With 99 Octane If I Run Mumtaz Only The Car Knocks And Performance Is Bad , Same Story Goes To The Is350 In Bic They Are Runing Mumtaz But They Dont Drive It A Lot And We Had Changed The Injectors Twice
Lexus Middle East Wont Have Direct Injection Till 2012

[BRN996TT]

Is this true, I don't think so!!!!

I would be very pissed if they sold me a 460 as a replacement for the 430 and find out it's detuned!!

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-third-generation/456181-limiter-on-my-car-0-a.html
THE 460 AND 430 IS COMPLETLY DIFFERNT ENGINES THE 430 IS 290 HP AND THE 460 IS 342 HP , THE 460 COMES WITH 8 SPEED LIKE LS 460

[BRN996TT]

Ls 460 American Model Comes With Higher Compression
And The Intake System Is Different

[BRN996TT]

Is this true, I don't think so!!!!

I would be very pissed if they sold me a 460 as a replacement for the 430 and find out it's detuned!!

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-third-generation/456181-limiter-on-my-car-0-a.html
I THOUGHT YOU WERE A SMART AND DO YOUR RESERCH BEFORE BUYING A CAR

[BRN996TT]

By The Way All Market Have Different Hp
Usa And Europe Are Different As Well
This Is Due To European Regulation And Something Do To With The Carbon Monoxide

[BRN996TT]

I Dont Understand , How People Think Its Only The Ecu , We Will Just Get The One Which Makes More Hp And Plug It In
Toyota And Lexus Make Each Car , For A Specific Region
In The Lx570 Its About 23 Hp Compared To American Model , Due To The Intake System Which Has Double Charcol Filters , Because The Car Here Is Used In Harsh Weather , Therfore Its Less

[KLEEMANN]

Lexus Middle East Wont Have Direct Injection Till 2012

Thanks BRN for clearing things here, but may i ask why 2012, are you saying we will be offered a better fuel by then from the pump.

[BRN996TT]

Thanks BRN for clearing things here, but may i ask why 2012, are you saying we will be offered a better fuel by then from the pump.
THEY WILL START WITH THE FIRST CYCLE CHANGE OF LEXUS SEDAN MODELS AND SINCE SAUDI NOW IS GETTING MUCH BETTER FUEL , THAM BEFORE WHICH I BELIEVE IS 95 REAL OCTANE OR HIGHER AND MOST OF GCC ARE HAVING BETTER FUEL THAN BEFORE , THERFORE TOYOTA AND LEXUS WILL OFFER IT AND IF BAHRAIN DONT CHANGE THERE FUEL , WE WILL HAVE A PROBLEM IN THE LONG RUN , THERE IS NO WAY WERE MANUFACTRE CAN HAVE A SPECIAL TUNE OR SPECIAL SPEC ONLY FOR A COUNTRY AS SMALL AS BAHRAIN , BUT I BELIEVE IN THE NEAR FUTURE WE WILL HAVE A BETTER GRADE OF FUEL

[designo]

Bu-Khalil

I am new in this market, so please give me time!!!

So my GS460 is 342hp confirmed? Or less?

[designo]

THE 460 AND 430 IS COMPLETLY DIFFERNT ENGINES THE 430 IS 290 HP AND THE 460 IS 342 HP , THE 460 COMES WITH 8 SPEED LIKE LS 460

I was only concerned that maybe the GS460 is detuned to 322hp!

[BRN996TT]

Its 343 Or 332 Check Lexus Middle East Website , I Cant Memorize All The Hp Cars We Sell , Brother

[designo]

BTW.. that guy from the middle east that got beaten by a G35 probably raced a modded one.

I raced a G35 from dig at the lights and whipped it in every single gear! Anyone wanna try?

I wanna race a G37S

[designo]

Its 343 Or 332 Check Lexus Middle East Website , I Cant Memorize All The Hp Cars We Sell , Brother

OK Thanks bro

[BRN996TT]

I was only concerned that maybe the GS460 is detuned to 322hp!
DUDE ITS YOUR WIFES CAR INSHALLA 180 HP , YOU WONT BEAT ANY CAR WITH IT
ALSO EVEN MIDDLE EAST HP AND USA ARE CALCULATED DIFFERENT
THERE IS SAE , GROSS HP , WHP
FOR EXAMPLE NISSAN IS USING A DIFFERNT METHOD THAN TOYOTA AND FOR A WEIRD REASON ALL THERE HP IS MORE THAN ANY COUNTRY

[BRN996TT]

BTW.. that guy from the middle east that got beaten by a G35 probably raced a modded one.

I raced a G35 from dig at the lights and whipped it in every single gear! Anyone wanna try?

I wanna race a G37S
DUDE G35 IS SLOW AS HELL , MY TRUCK WHICH WAYS 6500 POUNDS , EASILY BEAT THAT DATSUN

[designo]

Hahahahahahah.... ti3jibny !

[Shihaby]

I saw a stock G35 sedan beat a GS460 from dig.

Ta9'3eera the GS won.

[Kayman]

Newer BMWs have DFI and have no problems..

New porsches have DFI and have no problems..

but what you're saying BRN is scary, my cayman S is DFI too and it would suck if I would have to clean the injectors every 5k.

Thanks for the info brother.

[Quarantine]

Newer BMWs have DFI and have no problems..

New porsches have DFI and have no problems..

but what you're saying BRN is scary, my cayman S is DFI too and it would suck if I would have to clean the injectors every 5k.

Thanks for the info brother.

thats what I was thinking. Other dealers/makes are selling DFI cars in the region. I guess you could run them but they won't make the hp numbers they profess to do with mumtaz

[t88_power]

D,

U can always hit the dyno and check your real hp :)

[designo]

Yup.. i think I'm gonna do that this week. Gonna take the M first before all the stuff go on.. FINALLY!

[KLEEMANN]

^^^ mabrook bro, glad for you

[designo]

Thanks K! It's time to vroom vroom!

[Pink Fluff]

I have to agree with BRN996TT on this. Direct Injection in Porsches at least, sucks. A change of fuel changes the car completly. You also have to get maintaince done as the car after 5000km runs really really bad... like an old carburator car.

[Kayman]

does cleaning up injectors require a very extensive job?

[designo]

Screw it.. I'm dynoing the lexus tomorrow night! I will be joined by member Gembala GT600

[t88_power]

^^ dyno the m5 at the same time la

[Unbreakable]

you're sexy

[ED]

Screw it.. I'm dynoing the lexus tomorrow night! I will be joined by member Gembala GT600
Sexy, can I come?

[BLOODLINE]

Just the Lexus or the M5 as well?

We need to see the dyno sheets :p

[designo]

Think I will take the M5 instead. I wanna see results pre-exhaust and ECU.

[Thug Life]

Yup.. i think I'm gonna do that this week. Gonna take the M first before all the stuff go on.. FINALLY!

let me know when :up:

[designo]

OK one final time!!!

Is my GS460 ( which is not DFI ) de-tuned or not? Is it pumping out 342hp or not?

[KLEEMANN]

mannnnnn, why cant you care less about the lexus! you have an M5!

[designo]

I'm demanding a partial refund from Kanoo!

[KLEEMANN]

hahaha, waiting for BRN996TT comment on that.

[designo]

Yup

Take the sticker price of the car, divide it by the number of HP's claimed, multiply it by the actual number of HP's minus the the number of HP's claimed = MY MONEY BACK!!!!

[ED]

Spoken like a real Jew, I'm proud of you, Son.

[designo]

Oh $hit!!!

http://www.lexus.com.bh/lexus_cars/gs/gs460_2008/specifications/specifications.asp

[designo]

For those of you that have inquired about and commented on the sulfur and direct injection issue, a column by Road & Track magazine's Engineering Editor Dennis Simanaitis has excellent information on this. In summary, Arab crude oil has 10 times the sulfur levels of Nigerian crude that is a good portion of the oil imported into the U.S., and 6 times the sulfur levels of our domestic Texas crude, and our gasoline, while lower in sulfur than that in the Middle East, Brunei and China, is higher in sulfur than the gasoline used in Europe. Here are excerpts from the article:

"I was surprised when BMW engineers told me that their most advanced direct-injection gasoline cars couldn't be brought to the U.S.

'Too much sulfur in your fuel,' they said.

I thought this had been only a diesel problem, and one solved by ULSD, ultra-low-sulfur diesel. But I dug around a little, spoke with specialists at Shell and learned more.

(S)ulfur occurs naturally in petroleum crudes. In fact, the term "sweetness" describes the relative scarcity of sulfur in a crude. Nigerian Bonny Light is particularly sweet, with perhaps only a tenth the sulfur of Arab Light, another benchmark crude in the petroleum business. Bonny Light's sulfur is around 0.14 percent by weight; Arab Light's, about 1.5 percent. West Texas Intermediate, also known as Texas Sweet Light, has a sulfur level around 0.24 percent.

By the way, all three of these benchmarks qualify as Light crudes, their API Gravity readings exceeding 31.1. (This American Petroleum Institute standard sets the density of water at 10, a crude lighter than water having API Gravity greater than 10.)

Sulfur Here and Over There
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency limits sulfur in our gasoline to an absolute maximum of 80 parts per million. In actual practice, based on some 4000 data points in 2007, our refineries' output averaged around 32 ppm. It's largely a matter of balancing crude supplies with refining techniques, the whole point being optimization of cost, output and distribution.

By contrast, the European Union has an upper limit of 50 ppm, with tax incentives for production below 10 ppm. Indeed, this lower limit has been proposed as a 2009 EU standard, and such ultra-low-sulfur gasoline is available throughout much of western Europe.

Euro carmakers, including BMW, have responded with gasoline direct-injection technologies featuring lean-burn modes of operation. However, lean-burn requires special treatment of NOx— and special gasoline. In such oxygen-rich exhaust streams, the chemical reduction of NOx is especially challenging, and such deNOx catalysts are particularly sulfur-intolerant.

Thus, BMW's most advanced direct-injection lean-burn engines are fine with sulfur at 10 ppm, but apparently not with it at 32 ppm (or particularly, at 80 ppm).

New ULSG Coming?
Could our refineries produce ultra-low-sulfur gasoline? Clearly they could, by opting for more sweet crudes, albeit at greater expense, and spending more on refining them. Such fuels would evidently cost more, so maybe the real question is should they produce ULSG?

Note as well, deNOx cats don't come cheap either. So automakers — and U.S. consumers — would also have to assess whether the incremental gains in lean-burn economy are worth the added costs in products and operation.

With Euro fuel prices at more than twice ours, the tradeoff is apparently beneficial over there. It's not so clear on our side of the Atlantic, but it's certainly a fascinating technical quandary."

ROADandTRACK.com -- Tech Tidbits - Tech Tidbits (5/2008)

[designo]

D,
U can always hit the dyno and check your real hp :)



We need to see the dyno sheets :p

Okay so this was the result! Is the AFR accurate? If so, can it be leaned out just a bit? And if I could, would I get my power back?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/Ahmed--Baqer/GS460Dyno.jpg

[designo]

BRN996TT

Are you running stock ECU on your ISF?
Thanks

[Thug Life]

the dyno is little bumpy and the air flow ratio is waaaaay rich who tune lexus's?

[maXmood]

the dyno is little bumpy and the air flow ratio is waaaaay rich who tune lexus's?
looks stock, untuned.

[designo]

Yeah car was bone stock at time of dyno! Now I have filter, mid pipes and rear mufflers. Cat deleted!
Could i possibly be running richer now?

[BRN996TT]

Okay so this was the result! Is the AFR accurate? If so, can it be leaned out just a bit? And if I could, would I get my power back?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/Ahmed--Baqer/GS460Dyno.jpg

i'm runing stock ecu , there is no way your afr is right

check your car in qattan dyno , it could be the afr guage in the dyno shop you were using is wrong or not accuarate

all of our car we have tested so far in qattan dyno are accurate afr

most of my car i have afr guage inside and i always use qattan afr dyno guage both reads the same thing

check out and let me know the result

[designo]

OK bro, send me Ebrahim's number! Let's put her on the dyno and see the AFR!

[BRN996TT]

ebrahim al qattan , 36629663 or abdulla 39423424 M&M DYNO HAMALA NUMBER

try the car at the same rpm in the same gear

usually its better to start from 2,500 rpm if you can hold the gear

let me know the result

and what kind of fuel you are using ? do you have cats ? stock air filter or aftermarket ?

[Thug Life]

Yeah car was bone stock at time of dyno! Now I have filter, mid pipes and rear mufflers. Cat deleted!
Could i possibly be running richer now?

it should be leaner and if that AFR was right change the spark plugs

[designo]

ebrahim al qattan , 36629663 or abdulla 39423424 M&M DYNO HAMALA NUMBER

try the car at the same rpm in the same gear

usually its better to start from 2,500 rpm if you can hold the gear

let me know the result

and what kind of fuel you are using ? do you have cats ? stock air filter or aftermarket ?

Thank bro, I will call him!

Holding gears is very very tough on the GS. Perhaps the guy's at M&M can do something about that and give me some advice!

I'm using pump gas mumtaz, I have removed the cats ( between headers and axle back exhaust ) and replaced with mid pipes with resonator.
Air filter is Tom's high flow

[maXmood]

the more flowing you got the more leaner it should be. but in most ECUs (what i would call intelligent ones), it adds more fuel to compensate and regulate the AFR.

[BRN996TT]

designo did you take your gs to the other dyno ? let me know i want to know whats the afr

[designo]

designo did you take your gs to the other dyno ? let me know i want to know whats the afr

No bro, was so tired that night just went home and crashed. I will call Ebrahim tomorrow and arrange for this weekend inshala.